The Importance of Team Talent in Building Your Business

Jeff Liscum, a Builder Profile 10 (BP10) and CliftonStrengths Coach from Oklahoma City, was our guest on a recent Called to Coach, BP10 edition. Jeff advises businesses on how to use their employees' and leaders' CliftonStrengths and BP10 talents, and spoke of the value these tools can provide in helping leaders understand their teams' talents, along with where and how they can be most productively applied for the business' growth and success.

Below is a full transcript of the conversation, including time stamps. Full audio and video are posted above.

What should I look for in a job/career?

Jim Collison 0:00

I am Jim Collison, and live from our virtual studios around the world, this is Gallup's Called to Coach, recorded on April 28, 2020.

Jim Collison 0:24

Called to Coach is a resource for those who want to help others discover and use their strengths. We have Gallup experts and independent strengths coaches share tactics, insights and strategies to help maximize the talent of individuals, teams and organizations around the world. Today's episode is a BP10 Special Edition. If you're listening live, love to have you join us in our chat room. If you're on our live page, there's a link to the YouTube instance right above me there. Click on that, head over to the YouTube instance. There's a chat room either to the right or below the video and know that's there. There's also 3 little buttons in the upper right hand corner, choose that, and choose pop out and that'll put your chat anywhere. Make sure you're choosing live chat as well, and we'd love to have you in the chat room. If you have questions after the fact, send us an email -- or you want to reach Todd, send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. Don't forget, if you're on YouTube, subscribe, there's a subscription button down in the bottom corner, just to get notified whenever we go live. And we like that little "Like" button that's down there too. If you click that, that helps us get a -- that helps us get a little juice on YouTube, and we appreciate you doing that as well. Todd Johnson is our host today. Todd is Gallup's Channel Leader for Entrepreneurship and Job Creation. And Todd, always great to see you, and welcome back to Called to Coach!

Todd Johnson 1:28

I know, great to see you. I'm going to do my little editorial -- for those that have, and I've been connecting with coaches like crazy the last couple weeks. I don't social distance. I physical distance. And I have been socially connected to friends and family around the world like, in nobody's business. And I do feel physical distancing is important, but I do not condone the term social distancing. That's my little PSA. God is this an important call and topic. I mean, we're rebuilding communities, companies, teams, and let's build them stronger and better than before. The energy around garnering and gathering up your talents and the talents of your team, we've, some of you have seen the Gallup models and correlating to, you know, an engaged environment with a strong manager equals resilience. And resilience equals survival and growth in many cases. So, you'll start to see graphics and, and obviously, I think a lot of you are following our research on resiliency, and engagement, and strengths, but boy, is it important. I, I could go on and on and I'm not going to, with the different opportunities that coaches are, are developing in their communities with their small businesses, with their entrepreneurs. We're gonna have to rebuild this place. And I, when I say "place," I mean world, and let's do it right, and let's get the right teams in place. This, can I, do I point? Is he that way or this way?

Jim Collison 3:08

That, the, the second way, yeah, same --

Todd Johnson 3:10

This guy over here was one of the very first coaches, back when we were named -- I can't even remember, but not BP10, something else. He's been a, a great partner. He's a very, very, good friend. He's even hosted my son and I for college visits in Oklahoma. I mean, our friendship spans, the, the, the spectrum. And, and something -- and I'm not gonna embarrass you, but something that I really think is noble is all the coaching, and help you've given newer, newly minted, and, and coaches that are just getting started. There's just never been a time where I said, Hey, Jeff, can you help out X, Y or Z? And you just do it. And the nobility in that is pretty awesome. I've never heard you squeak or squawk. Maybe you do, and I just don't know it.

Todd Johnson 4:01

But, evidenced by this call, this guy is a pro. This guy is doing incredible things with the CliftonStrengths and the BP10 together. We're going to talk about that. But I've been really excited about this call. And with that, tell us a little bit about who you are, what's my new expression -- if we're on the elevator and you got 9 floors, introduce us to Jeff. You'll do a better job than I did. 9th floor, here we go, push the button.

Jeff Liscum 4:29

Appreciate that. So, well, my name is Jeff Liscum. I'm a BP10 and Strengths Coach here in Oklahoma City. And I work with business teams to help them really identify the Builder Talents for their teams and leadership, so they can better utilize, not only their their strengths in business, but actually how to utilize their talent for building and developing their, their business structure. We tend to find that -- team leadership needs to know their people, their talents of their teams. So, we walk in, walk in and help them see who the talent, how their talents are structured, how they use their talent, and then how to better, better utilize that talent in the growth of their companies. So, business owners and leaders just want to know that, that they have the right people around them, so we help them identify that -- fast, quick and in a hurry. And then from that point, help them put the right team members around them to have the best success.

Todd Johnson 5:26

The teams that have diversity, and we're going to present research, because many of you have been involved, you know that we've intuitively always known that, you know, if you want to, let's use a sporting analogy, because I think you're pretty good at those, and we'll see if I can land one. A whole team full of quarterbacks, without somebody up front blocking or a whole team of pitchers without a first baseman, etc, etc, etc. It makes perfect sense, but, but doing it -- talk a little bit about the diversity of the 3 roles. And yeah, I'm somehow going to work the word "nunchucks" in there because I heard you say that one time, it kind of blew my brain and I want to, I'm going to take notes so I can get it right. What do nunchucks have to do with any of this?

Jeff Liscum 6:08

Well, Gallup has had, had the CliftonStrengths for years now, and there's a lot of coaches that have been using CliftonStrengths in organizations for a number of years. But Gallup developed this, this latest assessment, which is the Builder Profile. And I've just, I've just described it as, this is like Gallup has developed the nunchuck -- it's, it's, it's a self-defense, it's a tool that you can use, but for a lot of coaches that have either taken the assessment, tried to implement it within the organization, they just haven't known how to use it. So what, what we did here is, me and two other fellow coaches, Eagan Lee and Patty Wilson, we actually worked on how do we incorporate this into our coaching with CliftonStrengths.

Jeff Liscum 6:47

So what we did, is we discovered, Wow, this is an amazing tool that gives us so much insight into how people approach business, and not just as leadership, but how do you think around business? How do you approach what you're doing? Where does your mind go when you walk on, as you say the court? How does your mind operate when you walk into the court of business? You may be a certain person out on the street. I say, kind of like some, some ... players that may be mild and meek in person, like a big puppy dog, but when they get out there on the field, they turn almost like a raging like, like, like, assassin kind of you want to say, out on the field of play, and then they turn back into like a big Labrador, you know, as a human being, but on the court, they're like a whole different person. Well, this tells us that kind of thing about people in business. And when we found out how to incorporate that, along with CliftonStrengths, and how they really interlock with each other, it just totally changed how we see people.

Jeff Liscum 7:45

And you're asking about the roles. Well the roles were the first keys that we unlocked about it, that showed us how people actually think in business. And because you have the 3 roles -- you have a Rainmaker, you have a Conductor, and Expert. But we really found out that those 3 roles actually approach questions in business in a different light. So that was something that was so unique, and really interesting. As we started talking to more and more people, and started describing it back to them, they were like really in awe of the fact that we could, actually like peer into who they were as a person, and as a business owner or leader, and see how they approached their business and where they were using that ability, ability to be successful. But at the same time, it was maybe hindering them on another area of their business because they weren't thinking about those other 2 roles.

Jeff Liscum 8:33

And as Gallup developed this tool, it was about how to build the right kind of teams, to make a business work and operate. Well, these 3 roles were the other 2 roles that needed to be around you to help you really solidify your business, and, and Gallup actually came up with this tool that actually identified that in successful business leaders. That really has never been seen until now, to actually say, Oh, I know why this person is a great business builder because they are maybe a Rainmaker or really a Conductor who has a Rainmaker on the side of them and an Expert. And then you can actually see them operate in their natural environment, like you said, as, as who's the pitcher, who's the second baseman, who's the first baseman? You actually get to see it real time through this tool.

Todd Johnson 9:19

I can't remember when, but you talked to me once about a pitcher and their CliftonStrengths and a fastball. Take me through that again. It was a really cool, interesting -- we're all missing baseball -- so get us, get us a little baseball fix.

Jeff Liscum 9:35

Yeah, yeah. So, so when I talk, when I talk about the Builder Profile, in, in a sports analogy of baseball, I say, CliftonStrengths and Builder Profile -- how do they work together? Because coaches will always ask me, Well, how do you use this together? I say, Well, think about a pitcher. OK? The Builder Profile tells us, Are you a second baseman, shortstop or a pitcher? Well, we've landed on you're a pitcher. OK, well, I -- now that I know you're a pitcher, through the, through the Builder Profile. I, I want to know how you pitch. Well, that's what the strengths tell me now.

Jeff Liscum 10:04

So depending on your strengths as a pitcher, I now know, Do you throw a curveball? Or are you a fastball pitcher? Are you a knuckleball pitcher? That tells me what kind of pitcher you are. Not just that you are a pitcher, but the kind of pitcher you are. And now I can put those 2 things together. And now I can really hone in on how to develop your strengths. And the role that you're best suited for which, which I hear as a pitcher, is how to be the best pitcher you can be.

Todd Johnson 10:30

I love it. I love it. Which do you do first? You go into a client for the first time. What's -- take us, what's the development journey look like? I don't think you take them both at the same time, do you?

Jeff Liscum 10:42

Actually, actually I take, they take them both at the same time, but we don't dive into them at the same time. So I personally want to see the 34 and their BP10 side by side, because that lets me know immediately -- my first conversation, the first conversation we will have will be to, they're gonna -- people will question, a lot of times the coachee, coaches and their, their coaching or, Can I trust you? Do they know what you're talking about? This automatically --

Todd Johnson 11:10

Gotta gain credibility, right?

Jeff Liscum 11:11

This is a, this gains more credibility than any coach could ever have. Because what happens is, when I say BP10 and strengths, I start with the BP10, because I lead in with that to help them understand what they're doing intuitively right now in business -- they want to do more of and better of. The thing that maybe they're weak, I'll just call it their deficiency talents, are the ones that they need to find a team to place around them. So when I talk to initially about how well they're doing their top talents really well, how it's an intuition -- it just comes to them without even thinking. Right?

Jeff Liscum 11:45

Like, you've seen like those videos on the YouTube where a guy just puts his hands up and catches a ball, like without even looking at it. Like that's an intuition. It's a talent. You can't, he can improve it, but you can't teach that to everybody. I mean, some people could get hit upside the head. Let's be honest about it. But some people can just do that. Well, that's, that's an intuition that person has. So we speak to that in their business arena. How they do it in business, but then that they, they then go, "Wow, how did you know that about me? Because I never said that to you." You're right. You didn't. But this tells me this about you. Right? And then who do you have around you to fill in these other voids, because those voids are actually where they're actually stuck at in their business. If they are doing it alone, and they don't have somebody filling in that void, or they just keep plugging somebody into that spot, and it's not working out. Or they have put somebody and it works out, I tell them why it works out. And then they go, Oh, wow, that makes sense. So now we move into what, what happens with this assessment is we look at who's your board of directors, your board of advisers.

Todd Johnson 12:44

I was going there.

Jeff Liscum 12:45

That's exactly where we go. So when I introduce that to them, we're looking at who to put around you first. Then we'll look at the strengths they have and how you do a cohesion through communication and workability with each other. This is where strength comes into play and how they communicate that, right? Like, you can put a great pitcher here, but how does he communicate to the second baseman or the first baseman, like, where they want them to be and how? Well you have to build communication and trust when it comes to understanding each other's strengths and what you need when you're working together, because your strengths have a need internally to be fulfilled, because you're trying to -- both, all three of you on the team are trying to win. Contributing in who you are, A) because of your talent, but through your strengths that communicate, Hey, I need certain things as a shortstop or as a pitcher, you know, as a manager, or as a salesperson or as a CEO. I have certain needs in my role. OK, let me communicate that and that's how we, we work with the strength. So we'll definitely start with the BP10 and then bring in how to use your strengths and how you're using your strengths within that talent. Because they use it. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Todd Johnson 13:55

I'm gonna, I'm gonna highlight that board of directors. Somebody was telling me the other day -- and I've talked about it on previous shows, but it's, it's that important. We're all CEOs of our own life, and we all should have a board of directors. People hear the term "board of directors," and they think, you know, General Motors, or, you know, but we're all building a life, a journey or a small business. And I get concerned when I see these small businesses only thinking about other employees. You know, they've got backyard neighbors or, you know, school kids, parents, friends -- I mean, the board of directors can be all over the place. But the key is that it's intentional. That's such an important word in all this -- intentional, and systematic. Do you use the PDF that we put up on the website, or you probably adapted your own, didn't you?

Jeff Liscum 14:50

I use that one. I use that one along with another one we developed. But the thing we use is when I have that conversation with somebody about their board of directors, I focus in on saying You, Inc. So it's Todd, Inc. OK? If you were, if you were on the board of directors for Todd, Inc., and I did this with with a couple people, and when they think about a board of directors, and they're just contributing, especially when we say a "Mom and Pop Company," they think of, I'm the CEO, I am the board. And they can't see themselves outside of the the day-to-day job.

Jeff Liscum 15:23

Let's set that aside. You're just at the board of directors meeting. No employees, it's just the board. And when they, when their mind, when I say that to them their mind goes, Oh, I'm not Bob, the, the employee, I'm Bob, the CEO. How would you talk to Bob the employee? Well, I would need to have this, this, and this going on? Because I haven't had that happening. I had questions. OK, great. Who do you know that could fulfill that information for you, or help you ask a question in that area, that you don't tend to maybe ask questions as well, or as intuitively as you do what you've been doing really well? And, and that's a distinction that, that when they understand that, and I say ask the question, that is something that is extremely important to the success and failure of all businesses. Because here's what happens is, every business success and failure is predicated on the questions they ask and the answers they come up with through those questions. Every business -- and it's --

Todd Johnson 16:23

Do they listen? Asking a good question is only half the battle; do you listen to the answer?

Jeff Liscum 16:30

What happens, though, is they ask the question predicated on their talent, for the answering of the question. So if we say that in, in, and we say, I kind of say layman's term, if you are not maybe good at pitching, and you thought throwing a curveball was a good idea, or, or better yet, opening a -- let's say a business, because we're talking business. If you had the idea of opening a restaurant on a certain corner, and serving a certain meal and hiring certain employees, those are all questions that you decided to ask and answer. Now all of those are pertinent to the success and failure of that business. So you have to be good at identifying the street corner, the food, the employee and what prices you're going to put it at. Those are all questions that you ask, and maybe you're good at the food, at making it, but maybe not good at the hiring piece of it. Well, that will sink your business. Or picking the corner --

Todd Johnson 17:23

How about this thing called a customer too? That's kind of important.

Jeff Liscum 17:26

Right. All those, every pieces of that work, have to work in alignment, and the better you are at, at identifying those things well, and if you don't have that ability, personally, then we go back to building your board of advisers. Who do you know, that is, has an intuition around those other areas that you struggle with? Because when you look at business owners, they spend all their time on the areas that they struggle with. Because when you do something intuitively, you don't think about, say a process, if you're somebody who knows how to pitch an idea. The process just, is the thing that hangs you up, but if you know how to pitch the idea or get people on board with it -- you see people that say, I know how to get people engaged in this thing, but I don't really care about how to get it to them. Well, that's a huge part of the business. So who does that for you? Like, you sold the idea, but then you don't have anybody there to deliver on it.

Jeff Liscum 18:17

And, and I have an analogy -- one of my analogies is I talk about a circus. It's a great analogy for me. I say, Think of a circus that the, the tent circus that came to town. So when the tent circus, tent came to town with the circus, you had somebody that went to the town, because the town people did not know anything about the circus, because it's on the edge of town. So somebody had to go to town, convince the townspeople that you needed to kind of see this amazing event. You'll see all these amazing people. That person is, we say, someone who's like a Rainmaker pitching the idea to the town. Well, you get to the circus, and then what happens if there's nobody there to make sure that the things that the, the acts come out the right time, or the right people are doing the act, the person who has the popcorn, takes the tickets? Where's your Conductor, or we say ringleader, that knows how to put all the people in place, at the right place, at the right time, to do the things appropriately? Well, great, you have a ringleader, you got somebody to promote it, but guess what? Are things, are things happening on time, as they should? So, we have 3 shows we have to do a day. Are these shows happening on time? Because if they aren't, the 1st show is bleeding into the 2nd show into the 3rd show. So you have to have an Expert that keeps things in order. But the Expert's thinking about the, that process. You know, the the Conductor's thinking about the people that are doing the things you're doing. The Rainmaker's thinking about how do we convince people? Because all 3 of those have to be spoken of, and looked at in a very, specific way.

Todd Johnson 19:41

And what we're finding of course, and this is just so sophomoric to say to a group of these coaches, but blind spots are by definition -- you can't see them. It's, it's in this team-building piece -- they, it's just so powerful, because by definition, they don't see the gaps unless somebody can come in and help them with, you know, a science, an objectivity, a 3rd, 3rd party. I'm seeing an awful lot of that. So doing and being, are they the same? Or different?

Jeff Liscum 20:17

They're totally different. So I say this way. I say, You know, we've always been told as kids, "You can be anything." And I, and I tell people, Yes, you can be anything you want. Doesn't mean that you can do it as well as others can do it. Right? I can be an accountant. I can be a basketball player. It doesn't mean I'm gonna go down and play for the [Oklahoma City basketball team] Thunder. I can get a basketball. I can practice all day long. You know, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. I can be a basketball player, doesn't mean I'm going to be a good one. I can study accounting. I can study medicine, doesn't mean I'm going to be a doctor. Doesn't mean I'm going to be -- I can study business, doesn't mean I'm going to be a CEO or business founder. Because there's things beyond just reading and studying that have to come into play. Doesn't mean that I will be bad at it, or horrible. There is a level at which I will attain in the process.

Jeff Liscum 21:10

So, when we, when I talk to people about, you know their, we say, now coming back to the talent, well, is my talent, say, someone who just started? Maybe I'm like a, you know, like a pickup guy. I just I play street ball, you know, I play on the corner, or maybe I'm good enough to make college or high school or you know, in the pros. Right? We think about business people in the same aspect. So if you think about businesspeople that way, who are the professionals that we all look at? Well, we think about the Chicago Bulls on ESPN, right? We look at Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen as that's the elite of the elite, of basketball players. Well, I'm, I look, I have that poster on my wall, right?

Jeff Liscum 21:47

Well, if we think about businesspeople, do I have an Elon Musk, quasi-poster on the wall? You know, a Sam Walton, a Bill Gates poster on the wall of an entrepreneur? Well, that's what we look at. Well, they have certain abilities and talents that got them to that level. Just because I say I am, doesn't mean I am. Now I may be good enough -- I may be somebody who can run my own business as a solopreneur. Am I good enough to be someone who can manage 10, 20, 30 employees? Maybe I am; maybe I'm not. Or maybe I'm somebody who can run a 100-, 200-, 300, 500-, a 1,000-people company.

Jeff Liscum 22:20

But if we, if we look at the talent that we have, and the team talent, the team talent is a definite measurement, or a window to see how we, we can accomplish all those things. And talent development is a real thing. Everyone's kids right now goes to some sort of talent development, right? Everyone goes to, they have a batting coach, or running coach, a throwing coach. I mean, kids in sports right now, promise you, has -- I remember just going into like we played all day Saturday, Sunday, and that was it. Now I see everybody, they have shooting drills, dribble drills, running drills, like, it's amazing. And it's just to take their talent from here to there. It doesn't mean that they're gonna be professionals necessarily. It just means we took the talent they had, and improved it beyond where they were intentionally or going to naturally end up being because we focused on what they do have and made that the best that it could be. But not everybody is going to be the elite by doing it.

Todd Johnson 23:18

And we all play the ball where it lies. So that's that's my analogy. And, you know, on a good day about half land. I'm not sure what today is, it's still early. But, so interesting. And I don't know if you're collecting questions, Jim, or -- I don't want to --

Jim Collison 23:35

Yeah, no, I am. Can I, can I, can I throw, throw a few in -- related to what he's doing? So Jeff, someone had asked earlier around the CIR, and before we do that, Todd, can you explain what that is, just really quick? So maybe new folks know what we're talking about with the CIR report?

Todd Johnson 23:51

It's called the Coaches Insight Report. It's an intensity report. Christy Trout runs a really efficient program. There are protocols around how to order them, etc. But, we basically went into the database, and provided only BP10-trained coaches have access to it. It's a scored intensity report, by cumulative, so we add it all up, and then we benchmark against general population and the highest entrepreneurs in the database, and then by all 10 Demands of Building, what we'll call the the Talents of Building. And then just recently, well, maybe a year ago now, we brought in the scoring algorithm for the actual roles. So, and and as Jeff mentioned, and you've all heard me say before, we all have a little of the Conductor, Expert, Rainmaker, but knowing the intensity, and how we benchmark against the database, not one time in the report do we say, you know, good, bad, yea, nay. I've seen cumulative reports of 12, and I've seen them at 98. So there's a real spectrum, but, but that's the CIR.

Jim Collison 25:04

OK. So Jeff, are you using CIR? And then, Top 5 versus All 34 on the CliftonStrengths side? How are you using these?

Jeff Liscum 25:13

So, I, I don't dive into the CIR all the time. Just for the fact that, it, it does give me a deeper dive into their talent, but the initial conversation doesn't actually require that. I would use that in a longer coaching aspect with them. But I can, I can get a lot of things I need, pretty much everything I need, just from the report. And there's CliftonStrengths. So the CliftonStrengths, I look at, I look at their Top 10 to 15 strengths. And I look at their Bottom 5. And now what I do have the ability, what we do have the ability to to see is, is if someone's Top 4 talents in the Builder Profile are directly in relationship to their Top 10 strengths and how they execute this one. So I just say these 10 are inside of this 1 talent inside of the first 4. OK? Again, where I talk about what kind of pitcher are you?

Jeff Liscum 26:10

So we say, the role first tells me how you approach business. The 10 talents, we're interchangeable. So we may share 2 or 3 talents. But our role is the deciding factor; it differentiates us from each other. So we may share knowledge, but a knowledge from a Conductor is a knowledge of people. A knowledge for an Expert can be about processes, but they're both knowledge-driven. And knowledge is not about knowing; it's about knowing the thing that you're important, that is important to you, and, and to do with the business. So if you are thinking about people, you're knowledgeable about the people in the business as a Conductor, and you are always thinking about people in the business. If you're someone who's knowledgeable as an Expert, you're knowledgable about processes and always want to know more about processes and how to make them better or look at different processes to make those processes different.

Todd Johnson 27:00

Competition, product service, very different type of knowledge --

Jim Collison 27:05

Well, this, -- keep going, no, keep going, Todd.

Todd Johnson 27:07

No, I'm just gonna say and I, I like how you're hammering business, because this is a business vocational science. So people said, Well, I've got Learner. That's, that's a different gig than knowledge about marketplace, customer, competition, you know, industry trends, etc. They're just, they're different. They're, they're built differently. And, and so, yeah, someone once said, If they're all correlative, you wouldn't need 2 assessments. So --

Jeff Liscum 27:39

And it's, and that's, that's the thing that you start seeing is, someone with knowledge can use Learner. They say they use Learner, they may use Relator. They may use Input. They may use Woo, because what they're doing is they're, they're filling their knowledge with the, with the strengths that they have. So they may be the go-to person, or they may be the person who goes to get the knowledge. They don't necessarily have to retain it into, internally, or have it on their desktop on their lap -- on their computer. It's just that they are somebody that is always thinking about knowledge.

Jeff Liscum 28:18

And when you talk to them about it, and we have those conversations, and when I say that to them, and describe it. It, it is, it, they're like, Oh my God, you're so right. I am always thinking that. It's always on my mind. I've never stopped. You're right. You don't stop. Don't ever stop. But guess what, that thing at the bottom? Like maybe relationship? You don't think about business relationships. You may have a Woo that thinks it has a Rolodex of 1,000 names, but who are the 5 important people you need to do business with today? If you don't have the relationship intuitiveness to think about who the 5 are, you're calling 1,000 people, which is killing time and money.

Todd Johnson 28:58

Yeah, right. I love it.

Jim Collison 29:00

Jeff, Gregg asks a good question. He says, What experiences have you had using BP10 with nonprofits and government agencies? Do they get hung up on the profit questions as it relates to other type of roles? And, and I, I always like to say nonprofits are actually in, they do have to make some profits in there and they are --

Todd Johnson 29:17

Show me a broke do-gooder, and I'll show you a broke do-gooder!

Jim Collison 29:22

But Jeff, your experience in that area of nonprofits and government?

Jeff Liscum 29:25

Yeah. So I haven't worked with any nonprofits and government directly, but the conversations I've had with them both is the fact that they are, they are -- they need to be thinking of themselves as businesses. You know, the title of nonprofit and government --

Todd Johnson 29:38

It's the tax relationship with the IRS, but sustainability -- start talking about sustainability, vitality, financial integrity, and it all goes away. It doesn't matter what form you use during tax time, right? Sorry to interrupt. This revs me up.

Jeff Liscum 29:55

No. no, no. Todd, I'm sure Todd has had lots of conversations with with government officials around this and has probably had a lot of pushback, so he knows probably way more than I do about that from the government side.

Todd Johnson 30:02

We, I think our previous titling was maybe business orientation or business acumen. And we were dancing around the fact that it was profit and financial vitality, but that's too long a word. So profit was shorter and easier to spell. So, we don't, you know, we don't ever want to get slowed down on the conversation over the label. I was around for, Jim, you were around for some of this, you know, we, we changed labels and titles on CliftonStrengths for, I don't know, 5, 7 years. Just refining them and trying to get them as close as you can. But it's a great question, Greg, and it's good to see you. Take care of those dogs of yours.

Jim Collison 30:45

One of the, we, you know, on the, on the, on the CliftonStrengths side, we interviewed Compassion International, which is a big, gigantic nonprofit. Right? Helps, helps some poor children all around the world. And the word they used was "sustainability." Like, instead of profit, they use sustainability. In other words, they have to continue -- and of course, the more they can fundraise, the more children they can help. And that's their profit model. Right? That's how that, that's kind of how that piece works. Jeff, did you finish your thought? Todd jumped in on you. Any other --

Todd Johnson 31:19

I got kind of excited.

Jeff Liscum 31:19

I'll tell you about some, so profitability, the way, the way we that, I've always described profitability, profitability -- people have, have the definition, they think money all the time. But profitability, we describe it this way, profitability is about time is money, money is time. But that's not about dollars and cents all the time. It's about measuring things to their best outcome. OK? So from a nonprofit's point of view, or a governmental point of view, who's on your team, thinking about profitability? Because profitability is actually the lowest of the 10 talents in people. It's not, it doesn't show up at the highest, when you look at the CIR. It's not the highest of them all; it's actually the lowest of the 10, but it's something that you have to be aware of to think, OK, how are we going to be most efficient with what we're doing?

Jeff Liscum 32:05

And that's where profitability comes in. It's an efficiency side of business because, and nonprofits, because it's such a giving to nonprofits, it, it, it's, it, you have to have somebody in there thinking about, about not just the giving, but you're right, it's about sustainability. But the sustainability, sustainability comes from raising money. Well, who's helping us be a fundraiser? OK, who's our Rainmaker that gets out there and, you know, has -- now I'm gonna dive into the talents -- who's our person that has Selling and is a Rainmaker that knows how to talk the vision of our organization, and get people on board, right? And that's where you start seeing the natural occurrence of talent. OK?

Jeff Liscum 32:46

Someone who has the ability to be naturally good at selling, not selling it to get over on people, not the you know, selling ice to Eskimos, but somebody who knows how to convince people to say, Hey, this is a worthwhile, worthwhile cause, I need to give to that. And a matter of fact, I want to give substantially, substantially enough that they're going to be around for awhile. Well, who's that person? Do we, have we identified who it is? Or have we given it to someone who has just been here the longest, who's been an, you know an exceptional employee? We've used the measurement forever in business as, hard work, determination, who's burned the midnight oil, has been the one that we, you know, promote to the next level. Well, this helps us move past just longevity, and who's been here the longest to say, Wait a minute, who has the most talent? Because if that were the case, the starter on every basketball team would be the guy who's been on the team for 12 years. I mean, that's who would be your starter. It's not the brand-new rookie; rookies would never start for a basketball team.

Todd Johnson 33:42

I'm not good. This is a BP10 call, but I'm gonna touch on this management thing. I mean, we've, we've tenure-based our managers, so the longest, the longer you've been there, the more people you get to manage. What a dumpster fire that was. I mean, sorry, it's my new favorite term. Just longevity doesn't give you the talent for any given role. And we really got, we, I'm saying, as a world economy got that one wrong. And hopefully some people have tracked on our, on our manager training. Pretty timely. Think, everything you've said, think, think how important the rebuilding of a nonprofit or a small business is gonna be as we're, as we're hitting, and every community is going to be different, but we're all kind of talking about coming out and reopening. God, these conversations are going to be important.

Jim Collison 34:37

Jeff, good question here. Says, What's been your experience using BP10 as a discovery device for business owners who have been established for some time -- maybe businesses who are not newly already established? Thoughts? And I kinda want to throw another caveat of, What about businesses coming out of this, this time? They've been established, but their world has been rocked. And now they have an opportunity to think differently. Can you talk a little bit about that, just those scenarios?

Jeff Liscum 35:07

Yeah. So for established businesses, the conversation is, is actually exactly the same. I mean, we actually approach this from the, from the aspect of how do we help current businesses go from where they are to where they want to be? OK? Because we recognize early on, that there are more businesses, like in the United States, that are small to medium that just needs to be fortified. If you can take a business, that's a 10 persons to 100, or 100 to 200 employees, you've dramatically changed the environment.

Jeff Liscum 35:37

I use another analogy. It's like, It's like a pond. Right? You can't keep -- looking for big whales out in the business environment, because all we do as cities and communities, we're cannibalizing one city's whale for our whale, and we're bringing them here, but what we haven't done is, we haven't looked at the -- we call it "bait fish," the small fish in the pond -- and say, Let's make the little fish get a little bit bigger, and then the next fish get a little bit bigger, which makes everybody feed off of each other. So when we're talking about established businesses -- how we've approached that is showing them again, start, start with the basics. Who's your board of advisers and who's your board of directors?

Jeff Liscum 36:12

Family-owned businesses -- they need lots of help, because they're, they're passing on, they're passing on the business to the next generation, and it is just, it -- you look at the numbers, it's 80, over 80% failure rate. Why? Because you, you've given the mantle to son or daughter, who may or may not have the same abilities as mom and dad who started the company. And coach with those and say, Guess what? You had an ability that maybe your kids haven't had. It's no different than, than great athletes. Yes, there are some athletes' children that go on to be great athletes. But guess what, not all great athletes have great athlete children. They, they can't fill the role that you had. You had an ability that just was different than your kids. Your life experience was different. What you, how you were raised was different. Your drive was different. Well, we've got to identify the talent. And what has always been missing in business is this right here: people who had an intuition, a natural ability to identify talent, they just have an eye for it. Well, for business -- in athletics, we have it because we can see it on the field. Like, we can see if you can run or catch or throw. We can see it all day long.

Jeff Liscum 37:20

What we can't see in business, we can't see if you can build a business, make sales, hire people and make it happen. And just like if you, if you were just to see -- a team hold up the Super Bowl trophy at the end of the year, and you never saw a game happen. That's all you've ever known is they have a trophy in their hand. Well, they were the best. How do you know that? Well, just like when you see a company, you never saw the play. We never see the guys ever practice. We just see them on the field. So we never see how many hours of, of diligent practicing that they put in to hone their craft. At least we saw the Sunday when they played the football game, but we never saw anything in business like that. We never see you at the board meeting having conversations. We never see you studying things.

Jeff Liscum 38:03

But what do you study as a great CEO? I mean, and your ability to read traffic patterns by just standing on a street corner to identify this is a good corner, is an instinct that I may not have. I may need data, analytics, to even get close to what you just did standing on a street corner for 5 minutes and just had a, what I would say the gut feeling, is your natural talent. Your talent, those 10 talents that show up, the top ones that are like, that you just live on, is that gut instinct. Because when you talk to somebody who has it, every time, you'll just say, "You just had a feeling, didn't you?" And they go, "I did." You can't explain it. Can you? You just knew that that was the right person to hire. And you just don't know why.

Jeff Liscum 38:45

Or you had the right idea to say, at that moment in time, to convince that person they needed to buy from me, didn't you? I did. They can't describe it to you. Neither can a great athlete. A great athlete can't tell you how he made the spin move and and did a layup and dribbled between the legs. He just did it. Now he's practiced. But he did it in a game. How did he do it? You can't replicate it, because you may not have that ability necessarily sometimes.

Todd Johnson 39:08

Love it. You see why I was excited about this one? Collison?

Jim Collison 39:12

Yeah, for sure. Jeff, have you, have you used BP10 in any selection or choosing people to do certain roles in organizations?

Todd Johnson 39:22

That's a great question. I never asked that.

Jeff Liscum 39:24

Yes. So, had a conversation with a client. And so he told us, after our conversation, and he was somebody who had a very good eye for talent, and he, he bragged about it. I mean he would tell you, I helped put people in positions that they didn't think they were good at, and thanked him a year, 2 years later said, "Oh, my God, like I was dreading this, it but it turns out, this is the best move ever for my life. Thank you so much!" We're talking to him about a certain employee and we say, "Guess what? Why is he doing that instead of this? You need to move him over here." And after that conversation, he said, "You know what? You just saved me about a quarter million dollars in this conversation, because I knew I had him, I just didn't know where to put him to make it work. And I, and he was been struggling with it." And we said, "Yeah, his talent is this, this, and this, you need to have him doing that for you." And he said, "Oh, my God, I never, I mean, I thought about it," but you know, it was that hesitation. Right?

Todd Johnson 40:21

Well, and you've, you've heard, when you make a bad hire, you know within 30 days, and it takes you a year and a half to get it fixed. That's what the data says. So having, having some scientific help, sure speeds that up.

Jeff Liscum 40:36

And we, and we've had the conversation about people like -- had a conversation, you know, with someone that said, Hey, you're, you're a great, you're great at training people, but you're not good at, you're, you're not, your best use, use of your talent isn't hiring. Because, and what happened is, is we, then we described back to them how they used their strengths to be triggered, to come up with -- what I originally said about the questions you ask and how you answer them. They flipped their trigger to say, "Oh my God, this is, I need to hire you!" Well, you've, I said, You've hired about 3 or 4 people, right and they haven't worked it out for that position. Right?

Jeff Liscum 41:09

And he said, How did you know that? Like, yeah, yeah, because you need, you're someone who takes somebody after they're brought into the company, they get trained up and learn a little bit. Now you're a 2.0 person. You're not a 1.0 person. But if you do hire, we're going to help you, to help you figure out what your triggers are for when you're in the hiring process -- how to help you be better at it, which we did. And he's hired somebody and we went back to him. I've seen him within the last year and said, Hey, how's that hire, Donny? He's, Oh, man, it's been fantastic. He took what we said to him, put it in place, recognized it. I trusted that. And now, now that, the person he's hired, worked out tremendously.

Jeff Liscum 41:46

Again, it's helped their company because he's hired people, and we knew who the person that needed to do the hiring, at the same time, because that intuition, you could see it on paper, through the, through the assessment of the BP10 and strengths together, because we knew how that person was approaching how they were seeing people. Because when people have an eye for talent, they just have it. But then when you tell them how they do it, that's, that's another thing. That's the magic. Because if I can tell you you're a pitcher, but then I tell you, you throw a wicked curveball, and I've never seen you throw it, like they they go --

Todd Johnson 42:23

Yeah. How'd they do that?

Jeff Liscum 42:25

How did they know that?

Todd Johnson 42:26

Is that guy reading my emails?

Jeff Liscum 42:28

Yeah -- but that immediately lends credibility from a coaching point of view, not because -- they're looking at you to help them immediately. Well, from a coaching point of view, coaches, you're gonna probably have to coach someone, probably 2, 3, 6 months before somebody really tells you the down and dirty of their company. Well, guess what? I walk in Day 1 with this. We're making changes next week. And but you're thinking about it, and this is the other thing, is once you tell people this, they start looking for it. They start seeing and hearing those talents that didn't come to them intuitively because you inevitably have somebody in a boardroom, or in a meeting, and somebody says, Hey, did you know that there's another Starbucks, there's another coffee shop opened down the street, and we're a coffee shop. And, and I've just paid attention to that. And did you know that they're offering a frupa latte, or whatever because I don't drink coffee, but and then I, and they're describing it to you and like, "Hey, be quiet. That's OK. We're the best in town, and we're going to kill the market."

Jeff Liscum 43:26

And I tell him this, I said, "Well, guess what? That's exactly what happened to Blockbuster, because they didn't have anybody in their business disrupting them, and who was actually paying attention to the market through their knowledge, and assessing the risk of transitioning from our old model to our new model. Those are things in established businesses that who's paying attention to that for you? Doesn't mean that they're there every day, 7 days a week, 8 hours a day, but someone has to be saying, Hey, pay attention. This is happening. I get your nose to the grindstone, but did you know that that's happening? Because you pay attention to these things extremely well. No doubt. But this back door is wide open and that's going to crush your business.

Todd Johnson 44:11

Wow. So the Blockbuster, some have heard me say this, but that was a Wayne Huizenga deal, but remember, and he did Waste Management first, so he systematized picking up trash. And then he did the movie thing until, and he got rid of it before Netflix and everybody wiped them out. Then they tried to turn it into a candy shop. Remember? So you go in there, and all there was was candy. Whoever's idea that was, was a terrible -- he went on and did AutoNation -- pretty good Conductor. Pretty good and, and could see things. I like the Risk one [talent] because they can see things that others can't see. I'm talking too much. What other questions do you have for this genius over here, Jim?

Jim Collison 44:51

Let me look. I actually had run out. I was hoping you'd keep going, Todd, at this point.

Jeff Liscum 44:56

I'll throw a couple in there.

Todd Johnson 44:57

I'm gonna put in a plug for next week. Are we doing these monthly now?

Jim Collison 45:02

Every month, yep.

Todd Johnson 45:03

So whoever asked about selection, Erica Wassinger is a really strong practitioner of the CIRs and runs an accelerator and uses this extensively in the selection and team building of startups. So she'll go super deep on the the selection piece of the science in the next show.

Jim Collison 45:26

Jeff, let me ask you this question. So as we, as we lean into this, and I'm calling it recovery period that we're going to go through for the next couple years -- what, how will you be different? Or what do you think you'll do different? Or will your own coaching be disrupted in some way because the situation's different? Just talk a little bit about looking ahead for yourself.

Jeff Liscum 45:46

Well, yeah, so, so for me, coaching, from this time forward, is, is going to be around how do we build the appropriate teams? Even for myself, you know, and that was the thing, when we got started here, me, Amy, Patty, like we all 3 went to the BP10 training. We all 3 went through it. And it just helped us come back and realize, we're no different. Every solopreneur needs to have a conversation with someone who can help them build their board of advisers. I have to have my board of advisers; every businessperson does. And you have to lean on those people to help fill in those gaps. So for me, it's imperative that I even go deeper in the, in the solidifying my board of advisers. But for me, what I'm looking to do is I want to talk more to businesses about implementing how to take their strengths assessment -- because there's so many companies that are using strengths right now, which is fantastic. They need to continue to do it. They need to, you know, double down on using it with the, with the understanding their employees, because every level of the company needs to understand it.

Jeff Liscum 46:50

But the management definitely needs to understand who their people are in the company. BP10 -- I've said this about companies -- I help -- I want to help companies, you know, come in, help them identify, Who's in your company that you can now groom to be your next superstars? You know, I think Jim has said, you know, in his story about the BP10, you know, like letting letting someone who founded a major company, that helped to found Twitter, I believe it was, like, left Nebraska. Like if you can find that person, but inside your company, like talent always leaves your company. But if you knew like Bob the stocker that stocked the shelves, could have been a magnificent person in your company -- what's, I know the guy that's gonna, what the Cheetos guy that made Hot Cheetos? Now the CEO. Like imagine if he had left? He stayed. But there are a million people like him. They got lucky that he stayed. Guess what he normally does? He normally goes and finds, founds another chip company that crushes them. That's usually what happens.

Jeff Liscum 47:50

But if you would identify that person, put them inside your company, and now you build your teams, that builds your products, your next level, like your R & D should be based upon a Builder team, not just a bunch of guys that have a lot of smart ideas. Because smart ideas don't actually turn out to be the next great thing all the time. But that, that strategic, talented team that you put together, and cultivate and put together, that because there are lots of companies that have had great ideas pitched to the CEO terribly. Like you may see, at some pitch weekend, terrible pitch ideas, but are like the next great, like they're Google, you know, they're Twitter, they're Amazon, like -- they just had horrible pitchers.

Todd Johnson 48:36

This talent coaching is going to be like fertilizer on the scorched economic earth, and that's a little breathless. And you all know I lead with Positivity, but we're going to really have to rebuild some small businesses. I've studied some economies around the world that they tried only have big businesses, and they didn't work. And it's not who we are, and everybody that lives in a community knows the ones I'm talking about. We gotta lean in on them.

Todd Johnson 49:02

I would strongly encourage coaches to watch some of this stimulus money, and, and see where it's going and how you can lean in on it, because there is increased energy around, Let's build the, the, the, let's build these companies based on the very best of what we know and survival, and, and, you know, we don't have to do it happenstance as it kind of happened thus far. Right? So, again, a lot of coaches around the world, not just the U.S., are, are leaning in on some, you know, stimulus programming, and it's exciting; they're, they're winning. So we'll focus on a few of those in future shows.

Jim Collison 49:48

Todd, I'm sorry. I'm afraid of the internet at the moment. Speaking of technologies that, since this situation happened, like the ability to livestream has been overrun. Right? And there's been questions on people using Zoom and GoToMeeting. And we're using StreamYard to get this done. Let's not fade it any more. Any final questions from you to Jeff? And then let's thank Jeff and wrap this.

Todd Johnson 50:13

Yeah. You're a great friend. Your, again, nobility around sharing your expertise is class. Shout-out to Amy and Patty. I got a note from her yesterday, hadn't heard from her in a while, that was awesome. And, again, just the, the thanks for what you do, and who you are and how you do it. Your nobility is, is strong.

Jeff Liscum 50:39

Thanks, appreciate, appreciate it. It's, it's, this is a, this is a phenomenal tool that Gallup has made. It is, it's a tool that's, that can literally change business. I think Jim, Jim went in with this, and wanted something that could change business in a way that had never been done, and honestly, I mean, you guys, you knocked it out of the park. I mean, this is, this is --

Todd Johnson 51:04

It's gonna be more important than ever. Now, when you, when he says "Jim," I think he means Clifton, not Collison, right? No knock on you there.

Jim Collison 51:11

No, he does. Let's be clear: I'm the real J.C.; let's just be clear on that.

Todd Johnson 51:15

We call them the "J-Team": Jim, Jane, Jon, Joe. For those that have been reaching out, again a Zoom call tomorrow, we'll see how that goes, and give my warmest regards to you and yours and everybody on the call. Stay safe and stay smart. We'll get through this, and be so much better on the other side of the curve.

Jim Collison 51:38

Todd, on the way out, there had been a question earlier about us cutting to the virtual training for BP10. We've done that for the ASC. We've done that for a few other courses. Any time frame, or you have anything to update as far as -- ?

Todd Johnson 51:53

It's happening. We've had to go real fast. We had thousands of people signed up for, you know, CliftonStrengths courses and iterations. So, it's in the future. I don't have any dates. Stay tuned.

Jim Collison 52:06

And Jeff, Donna had asked this question, and I think it's, on the way out, it's a good one for you. If I'm just a CliftonStrengths Coach, and I haven't done anything with BP10, certainly, if you wanted to get into this space, training is the best way to get introduced into that. But as of right now, what kind of recommendation would you give until they can get in some training? How could they get, or how would you recommend they get kind of familiar with, take a look at, get -- yeah, how would they do that?

Jeff Liscum 52:34

Well, I would, I would, of course, first take, take the assessment. And then, you know, jump in the community. We've got a good community, I think on Facebook, and there's some great videos that -- you guys have made some great videos on Facebook.

Todd Johnson 52:47

Ton of videos on this channel.

Jeff Liscum 52:48

Yeah, you got some great videos here. But, but engage coaches. I mean, there's, there's a lot of coaches around the world. What is it, was, what is it? Like 400 now or something like that?

Todd Johnson 52:58

Yeah, we're getting up -- close to 400.

Jeff Liscum 53:00

Yeah, so there's a lot of coaches, but, but, but engage any of us. There are a lot of coaches that use it. I mean, you guys are having a lot come on here. I mean, this, this one here for me is great, but then there's been other coaches, like they're using it all over the place. But if you're a coach, definitely take it, and then -- you're no different than any other solopreneur, to be honest with you. You need a board of advisers, and I would tell people: Read the book, build out your board of advisers, like, like, follow the steps and, and that's just important. Like that'll, that'll move someone's business. It'll, it'll lessen the frustration people have, immediately, I believe, and help you like, like build your build your coaching business, you know, and not be frustrated. Because, again, that the talents that aren't showing up for you as well, or for any coach, are the ones that are getting in the way, to be honest. Those are the ones that, that slow us all down. Doesn't matter if you're a coach, plumber, electrician, you know, doctor, dentist, it's all the same.

Jim Collison 53:59

Todd, would you add anything else to that?

Todd Johnson 54:01

I'm not going to. It was just so well said that I'll screw it up. I'll only reiterate to, my thanks, and I again, hope everybody is safe and, and be smart, as we do come out of this. We're blessed because BP10 Coaches are, so I'm not, I'm not worried about them, but be safe out there.

Jim Collison 54:29

All right. I think with that, we'll remind everyone to take full advantages of all the resources we do have available. That site, where all the tools are listed, and you can take the assessment: gallup.com/builder. Pretty easy to remember. I'll say it again: gallup.com/builder. I'll just do that for Mark, so he makes sure he gets the link in the show notes for it, as well -- he likes it when I, when I quote him out there. And like I said, all those resources are available out there. One site to kind of go, to kind of keep up on everything and know what's going on. You mentioned, we have restarted the Builder Talent Tuesday webcasts, so that had just been sharing the -- each one of the talents. We're now bringing in interviews. So if you didn't, maybe you had subscribed to it, and you're no longer, you'll want to resubscribe to it. So just go to any, go to any podcast player and search: "Builder Talent Tuesday." And you will find that there, and you can resubscribe to it. Make sure you're getting these on a monthly basis, and this is where the best information is coming. Todd, you mentioned an upcoming episode next month. Sangeeta is coming the week after that to talk, or the month after that, to follow up on the research that we that we did. So you might want to subscribe, just so you never miss one of those.

Jim Collison 55:34

Don't forget, don't forget if you have questions on anything, you can always send us an email: coaching@gallup.com. If you want to sign up for these live events, go to gallup.eventbrite.com. Follow us so you get notifications when we post something new. You might want to join us for the 2020 Gallup at Work Summit that's coming up, all virtual now, June 2 is the day. A very, very low price and everybody can come now, because it's 100% virtual. So, go to gallupatwork.com, again June 2, and you have up until June 1 to register, but don't wait that long. Just get that locked in. And we would love to see you at the summit coming up. And when I say "see you," I mean virtually see you at the summit, as well. 100% virtual. They are working on some really cool plans for that, and we'd love you to participate. Don't forget, we do have a BP10 group: facebook.com/groups/gallupbp10. I try not to make that too difficult for you. And we appreciate you coming out today to be a part of all the things that we do. Thanks for coming. If you're here, listening live, stay around for a little bit of postshow. With that, we'll say, Goodbye, everybody.

Jeff Liscum's Top 4 Builder Talents are Disrupter, Delegator, Risk and Confidence.